The Star
by Royce Cheah
Q: How do you feel about the way Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad turned up at the Umno general assembly? It was supposed to be your grand farewell, But he stole the show.
They’ve known me for a long time, so what. When your time’s up , it’s time to go. I do not demand too much. That is my behaviour. No fanfare necessary. What has been done has been done.
Q: Did the two of you say anything to each other?
Was so rushed. I don’t remember anymore. Not very significant.
Q: Best achievement?
Winning the 2004 election
Q: Greatest regret?
Worst election result in 2008
Q: After so many PMs. We have gone through so many stages of development. Where have you taken us in these six years. How much progress?
The emphasis has been given, especially with emergence of the young generation, on human capital. People did not care about this before me. To add value to workers.
For people to learn/relearn and unlearn. I have done Islamic studies - and it is all about improving yourself. Muslims were ahead of their time before. It surpassed a lot of what was done by previous civilizations. Ahead of their time with inspiration from the Quran.
But if you stop, you do not progress anymore and if you forget, then decadence will set in.
It is also about reducing disparity in many forms. Not just income - some are better educated, some are not. There is also disparity in economic sectors - agriculture for example.
Progress doesn’t necessarily mean focus on industrialisation. As the country develops - services sector is the focus. But that’s also why I promoted agriculture. We look at it as a base for the development of agro-based industry in a big way. It’s not just about planting. We’re talking about food security policy. It’s a new approach. When we have this together with the corridor development. It will help bridge disparity.
We don’t want pockets here and there without development.
Also, if you want to compare with Singapore. Talk about Klang Valley or Kuala Lumpur against Singapore. You can’t compare the whole country with Singapore then lament the fact we can’t do well. You cannot compare it like that and then make the conclusion that we are terrible and they are better. It should take into account complexity, land size, population and so on. Singapore is also almost a one-race population. I’m not here to talk badly about others. But if you want to compare. Compare correctly.
In the end it is about equitable distribution of quality opportunities and not just about handouts. We cannot just help people with handouts. There are times we have to, for example the social safety net.
If there is no equitable quality opportunities - then it is discrimination. This government cannot be accused of that.
Otherwise everyone will go to KL. We have to distribute and decentralise. Which then leads to quality of life which has been the struggle of mankind throughout history.
Q: You talked about progress Muslims made in earlier years and how we must emulate their efforts. But we must examine the Islam practised then. It was so free, lots of freedom to research, to think and implement. When you introduced Islam Hadhari, I thought this would bring it back to that era. But under you, Islam has gone to be more repressive. Just look at the lectures given by the ustaz on RTM1, they are so narrow and parochial.
It is a big problem - overseas the idea is welcome. Even Indonesia. But here it is all in a mess. Because we are fighting each other politically. Some PAS members do not like the idea. It is a battle that goes on. Changing of the mind. To do anything like that is not easy.
I have given myself that role. When I talk about democracy and freedom of discourse, it is not an easy job to do. But you have to allow people to enjoy it.
When people like it, the freedom, they think it is very nice. But I would have managed it better. I think up to now, nobody can silence the papers anymore. I don’t like the word takut (scared). Takut is not the way. Being reasonable is very important as well as being correct. Scaring does not work.
Q; Do you regret being more open?
I do not regret. but maybe I could have given more guidance. Like slowing it down when it was too fast. But now there is this unfettered freedom. Expression can come in any form. But I think you realise there has to be some control. You can impose the control on youself. Depends on what kind of values you have. Freedom, but wanting to do pornographic things, that’s not the kind of freedom I would like to see. Must have some values and self-respect. Freedom cannot be exercised without some moral limitation.
Then you are creating a big problem. You are creating anarchy.
Q: Has the freedom been a political asset for the Opposition?
Asset is not the word. To me, I have not been saying enough on this. Maybe in my retirement I will talk like this. Not to criticise Najib. But there has to be at some stage political education for all. For everybody, not only for BN or Umno. How we exercise freedom, freedom of speech and press freedom. Its all part of politics.
How to handle race relations. The young generation is coming up, with no sense of history. No real understanding of the reason why we must have this and must have that and as such what is being said by them is confused.
But I’m not saying it has to be cast in stone. What is the reason to change? If you want to change, it has to be change for the better.
Q: Why did you give freedom for such long time considering what was happening?
I’m not the type of person that when something goes out of line - slam - I shut them up. I can do that, but I’m not like that.
Q: Have people misused the freedom to some extent?
Yes. Some groups have used this freedom and used this freedom as protection. Throwing stones, etc, behind this freedom. These are cowards. Correct names but false IC numbers on whatever they sign off on. It is the exercising of the freedom to lie. Is that genuine freedom? Or abuse of freedom?
Q: Do you think you could have done more if Tun Dr Mahathir had not started to attack you very early on. Do you think you could have handled him better by not scrapping the crooked bridge to Singapore?
To him the bridge was more important than anything else. The rest (of what he said in public) was an elaboration of attacking me.
He did say that if the bridge was built he would stop attacking. So I stopped it and the rest is just him elaborating.
Q: Why didn’t you stop the bridge immediately when you took over?
I did not come in with a pre-conceived idea about that, That I would stop it. This is one issue that Cabinet discussed repeatedly. There was no money, deficit was up and we want to spend on the bridge?
People are watching the deficit. It was at 5.3%. If deficit goes up, do you think we’ll have the money for the stimulus package? We were at 3.2% that’s why it could go up to 4.8%.
Q: On hindsight, do you think you could have handled him better?
Maybe maybe maybe. But I just don’t care. How many times did I respond to him? Very rarely.
Q: When the transition of power took place, was there any agreement between you and Datuk Seri Najib? Will you become angry if he doesn’t do what was promised?
No-lah, I will not. I will not. I will not.
I just work on the basis of believing that if you do something that is good, if it continues to bring good, then there is no good reason why it should be stopped. There will be adjustment, maybe approach it differently. If you have a policy that takes 20 or 30 years to achieve results, along the way there will be a lot of adjustments.
Don’t change the main policy, but just how we get there.
Do you think we can reach Vision 2020 with the kind of problems we are having?
It will be so difficult. We have to double up our efforts.
Q: I think in your six years, there are a lot of missed opportunities. You won such a huge mandate, so many things you could have done.
Yes, missed opportunities in the sense that I could not do many things I wanted to do.
My election manifesto was actually a plan for the second half of Vision 2020. I never had any ambition to be there to declare that Malaysia is a developed country. I expect continuity.
Q: What stopped you from achieving some of the things?
I’ve been doing (things). Some I started earlier and some started later. You cannot implement the entire 2004 manifesto. In the beginning, it was so difficult. I don’t want to force it and create havoc. I’ve chosen a lot of things that have to do with changing of the mind and attitude.
Somebody actually wrote to me to tell me to do things that are visible and not invisible things.
Q: Do you think it’s fair to judge you based on six years when Tun Dr Mahathir’s first six years were difficult?
His first six years were terrible. Well, a little bit longer would have been greater. But it’s not the long and short of it, it’s what you can do in that period.
Q: You said you won’t be the interfering ex-PM, but you are still the MP. First-time in the history of Malaysia. How would you perform your role as legislator?
I would expect an MP to be supportive of the government to which he belongs, that is generally speaking. But there are certain things that if you are not happy, you can always chat over a cup of tea. I even do that with my ministers. I hate to scold people in front of anyone. I don’t do that.
I call and have a chat. Then some people cry. That’s how I deal. I don’t like it because God says if we embarrass people, then we will be embarassed.
Q: I find that you are soft-hearted. You do things to make people happy. Say if people come to your house, then you will entertain them. Then people elsewhere are waiting for you at another place.
That is one of my weakest (traits). My late wife used to scold me. She would say go, people are waiting for you. You entertain them, people are waiting for you there.
These people did not make an appointment with you. After this I won’t have that problem anymore.
Q: Will you miss these visits?
I can fill my time with so many things. I can adjust to it.
Q: Easy to let go? Some don’t find it easy to let go.
There is this changing of roles in life. You start to be somebody, then you become somebody. Life is about changing roles. You go through life and you keep on changing roles. No need to lament the fact when you have to change the role. Accept it. What you do as a young man, what you do as an adult, what you do as an older man. If you accept this fact, as you progress and you know at every stage there is something you can do, you still lead a useful life. You can still contribute. The question is, what do you do with yourself.
If you want to tear your hair and scream. There is a lot you can do. That is your choice.
When you are PM, there are a lot of things that you miss. Sometimes you want to do certain things. You just miss those things.
Q: I hope you are prepared for this.
I don’t think I am going to be affected in anyway. The pomp and all that. Pomp and pageantry don’t matter.
Q: Write a book?
Haven’t thought about that
Q: All the roles you have played, which role have you enjoyed the most?
I enjoyed whatever I did. I was happy in the Ministries I worked in. The PM’s role was very exciting. I enjoyed it.
by Royce Cheah
Q: How do you feel about the way Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad turned up at the Umno general assembly? It was supposed to be your grand farewell, But he stole the show.
They’ve known me for a long time, so what. When your time’s up , it’s time to go. I do not demand too much. That is my behaviour. No fanfare necessary. What has been done has been done.
Q: Did the two of you say anything to each other?
Was so rushed. I don’t remember anymore. Not very significant.
Winning the 2004 election
Q: Greatest regret?
Worst election result in 2008
Q: After so many PMs. We have gone through so many stages of development. Where have you taken us in these six years. How much progress?
The emphasis has been given, especially with emergence of the young generation, on human capital. People did not care about this before me. To add value to workers.
For people to learn/relearn and unlearn. I have done Islamic studies - and it is all about improving yourself. Muslims were ahead of their time before. It surpassed a lot of what was done by previous civilizations. Ahead of their time with inspiration from the Quran.
But if you stop, you do not progress anymore and if you forget, then decadence will set in.
It is also about reducing disparity in many forms. Not just income - some are better educated, some are not. There is also disparity in economic sectors - agriculture for example.
Progress doesn’t necessarily mean focus on industrialisation. As the country develops - services sector is the focus. But that’s also why I promoted agriculture. We look at it as a base for the development of agro-based industry in a big way. It’s not just about planting. We’re talking about food security policy. It’s a new approach. When we have this together with the corridor development. It will help bridge disparity.
We don’t want pockets here and there without development.
Also, if you want to compare with Singapore. Talk about Klang Valley or Kuala Lumpur against Singapore. You can’t compare the whole country with Singapore then lament the fact we can’t do well. You cannot compare it like that and then make the conclusion that we are terrible and they are better. It should take into account complexity, land size, population and so on. Singapore is also almost a one-race population. I’m not here to talk badly about others. But if you want to compare. Compare correctly.
In the end it is about equitable distribution of quality opportunities and not just about handouts. We cannot just help people with handouts. There are times we have to, for example the social safety net.
If there is no equitable quality opportunities - then it is discrimination. This government cannot be accused of that.
Otherwise everyone will go to KL. We have to distribute and decentralise. Which then leads to quality of life which has been the struggle of mankind throughout history.
Q: You talked about progress Muslims made in earlier years and how we must emulate their efforts. But we must examine the Islam practised then. It was so free, lots of freedom to research, to think and implement. When you introduced Islam Hadhari, I thought this would bring it back to that era. But under you, Islam has gone to be more repressive. Just look at the lectures given by the ustaz on RTM1, they are so narrow and parochial.
It is a big problem - overseas the idea is welcome. Even Indonesia. But here it is all in a mess. Because we are fighting each other politically. Some PAS members do not like the idea. It is a battle that goes on. Changing of the mind. To do anything like that is not easy.
I have given myself that role. When I talk about democracy and freedom of discourse, it is not an easy job to do. But you have to allow people to enjoy it.
When people like it, the freedom, they think it is very nice. But I would have managed it better. I think up to now, nobody can silence the papers anymore. I don’t like the word takut (scared). Takut is not the way. Being reasonable is very important as well as being correct. Scaring does not work.
Q; Do you regret being more open?
I do not regret. but maybe I could have given more guidance. Like slowing it down when it was too fast. But now there is this unfettered freedom. Expression can come in any form. But I think you realise there has to be some control. You can impose the control on youself. Depends on what kind of values you have. Freedom, but wanting to do pornographic things, that’s not the kind of freedom I would like to see. Must have some values and self-respect. Freedom cannot be exercised without some moral limitation.
Then you are creating a big problem. You are creating anarchy.
Q: Has the freedom been a political asset for the Opposition?
Asset is not the word. To me, I have not been saying enough on this. Maybe in my retirement I will talk like this. Not to criticise Najib. But there has to be at some stage political education for all. For everybody, not only for BN or Umno. How we exercise freedom, freedom of speech and press freedom. Its all part of politics.
How to handle race relations. The young generation is coming up, with no sense of history. No real understanding of the reason why we must have this and must have that and as such what is being said by them is confused.
But I’m not saying it has to be cast in stone. What is the reason to change? If you want to change, it has to be change for the better.
Q: Why did you give freedom for such long time considering what was happening?
I’m not the type of person that when something goes out of line - slam - I shut them up. I can do that, but I’m not like that.
Q: Have people misused the freedom to some extent?
Yes. Some groups have used this freedom and used this freedom as protection. Throwing stones, etc, behind this freedom. These are cowards. Correct names but false IC numbers on whatever they sign off on. It is the exercising of the freedom to lie. Is that genuine freedom? Or abuse of freedom?
Q: Do you think you could have done more if Tun Dr Mahathir had not started to attack you very early on. Do you think you could have handled him better by not scrapping the crooked bridge to Singapore?
To him the bridge was more important than anything else. The rest (of what he said in public) was an elaboration of attacking me.
He did say that if the bridge was built he would stop attacking. So I stopped it and the rest is just him elaborating.
Q: Why didn’t you stop the bridge immediately when you took over?
I did not come in with a pre-conceived idea about that, That I would stop it. This is one issue that Cabinet discussed repeatedly. There was no money, deficit was up and we want to spend on the bridge?
People are watching the deficit. It was at 5.3%. If deficit goes up, do you think we’ll have the money for the stimulus package? We were at 3.2% that’s why it could go up to 4.8%.
Q: On hindsight, do you think you could have handled him better?
Maybe maybe maybe. But I just don’t care. How many times did I respond to him? Very rarely.
Q: When the transition of power took place, was there any agreement between you and Datuk Seri Najib? Will you become angry if he doesn’t do what was promised?
No-lah, I will not. I will not. I will not.
I just work on the basis of believing that if you do something that is good, if it continues to bring good, then there is no good reason why it should be stopped. There will be adjustment, maybe approach it differently. If you have a policy that takes 20 or 30 years to achieve results, along the way there will be a lot of adjustments.
Don’t change the main policy, but just how we get there.
Do you think we can reach Vision 2020 with the kind of problems we are having?
It will be so difficult. We have to double up our efforts.
Q: I think in your six years, there are a lot of missed opportunities. You won such a huge mandate, so many things you could have done.
Yes, missed opportunities in the sense that I could not do many things I wanted to do.
My election manifesto was actually a plan for the second half of Vision 2020. I never had any ambition to be there to declare that Malaysia is a developed country. I expect continuity.
Q: What stopped you from achieving some of the things?
I’ve been doing (things). Some I started earlier and some started later. You cannot implement the entire 2004 manifesto. In the beginning, it was so difficult. I don’t want to force it and create havoc. I’ve chosen a lot of things that have to do with changing of the mind and attitude.
Somebody actually wrote to me to tell me to do things that are visible and not invisible things.
Q: Do you think it’s fair to judge you based on six years when Tun Dr Mahathir’s first six years were difficult?
His first six years were terrible. Well, a little bit longer would have been greater. But it’s not the long and short of it, it’s what you can do in that period.
Q: You said you won’t be the interfering ex-PM, but you are still the MP. First-time in the history of Malaysia. How would you perform your role as legislator?
I would expect an MP to be supportive of the government to which he belongs, that is generally speaking. But there are certain things that if you are not happy, you can always chat over a cup of tea. I even do that with my ministers. I hate to scold people in front of anyone. I don’t do that.
I call and have a chat. Then some people cry. That’s how I deal. I don’t like it because God says if we embarrass people, then we will be embarassed.
Q: I find that you are soft-hearted. You do things to make people happy. Say if people come to your house, then you will entertain them. Then people elsewhere are waiting for you at another place.
That is one of my weakest (traits). My late wife used to scold me. She would say go, people are waiting for you. You entertain them, people are waiting for you there.
These people did not make an appointment with you. After this I won’t have that problem anymore.
Q: Will you miss these visits?
I can fill my time with so many things. I can adjust to it.
Q: Easy to let go? Some don’t find it easy to let go.
There is this changing of roles in life. You start to be somebody, then you become somebody. Life is about changing roles. You go through life and you keep on changing roles. No need to lament the fact when you have to change the role. Accept it. What you do as a young man, what you do as an adult, what you do as an older man. If you accept this fact, as you progress and you know at every stage there is something you can do, you still lead a useful life. You can still contribute. The question is, what do you do with yourself.
If you want to tear your hair and scream. There is a lot you can do. That is your choice.
When you are PM, there are a lot of things that you miss. Sometimes you want to do certain things. You just miss those things.
Q: I hope you are prepared for this.
I don’t think I am going to be affected in anyway. The pomp and all that. Pomp and pageantry don’t matter.
Q: Write a book?
Haven’t thought about that
Q: All the roles you have played, which role have you enjoyed the most?
I enjoyed whatever I did. I was happy in the Ministries I worked in. The PM’s role was very exciting. I enjoyed it.
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