By Lee Wei Lian - The Malaysian InsiderPETALING JAYA, Oct 8 — The protracted cold war between the MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat and his deputy will come to a conclusion at this Saturday’s extraordinary general meeting (EGM), and Datuk Seri Dr Chua Soi Lek says he is confident of his chances of becoming MCA’s interim president.
He said this to The Malaysian Insider during an interview in the run up to the EGM.
(An interview request was also made to MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat's special assistant but was declined due to the president's time constraints.)
Dr Chua arrived for the interview yesterday at a hotel coffeehouse in Petaling Jaya, which has become the default venue for his sessions with the media, looking casual and relaxed.
He says he was confident as his supporters collected signatures from more than half of the roughly 2,400 central delegates in order to petition for the EGM.
He added however there was a possibility that shifts in allegiances could have occurred either way since the signatures were collected and says he would not question the eventual outcome even if the delegates reject him and endorse his suspension.
He also talked about why Ong had allegedly failed to move MCA forward, his own plans to unite the party should he be returned as interim party president and how he plans to win back Chinese support to MCA.
Dr Chua: Well, if it is based on the number of central delegates who signed the petition to request for the EGM, then we already have half the delegates. Of course the long period of campaigning, some may have been converted into not supporting (me). Meanwhile there are also those who didn't sign who are also converted into supporting. I would say that I am still quite confident. Confident because I have confidence in the wisdom of the central delegates of MCA. And most of them are quite matured and they can see that the president never performed. Or did nothing. He came in with a lot of high expectations. But when he came in with such a high expectation, at the end of the day, it was an anti-climax to be fair. Just slogans, catchy Chinese phrases here and there. Good for campaigning but not for running a big party like MCA where we need to deliver results.
TMI: What have delegates been telling you?
Dr Chua: It's not easy to get delegates to sign you know. They have to spend all their money to come here. More so, they are all businessmen, small traders, workers and to take a Saturday off is a big sacrifice and I must thank them. They do it because they know the party cannot continue at this stage for another two years. Another two years could be general election. There is no performance. They party is badly divided now. There is a president who doesn't listen to the grassroots. He makes appointments as he himself admitted to pay political debts. People who supported him last time should be appointed. He said that according to one of the sources of a newspaper. So you find very junior people appointed to the central committee presidential council which is unprecedented in the history of MCA.
TMI: But from his point of view, he might say that he wants to give the party a fresh start?
Dr Chua: Oh yes, you can. You can always have a process of renewal. A process of renewal doesn't mean that you neglect the middle and those above 50 years old. Whether you like or not, you still need a mixture of the young, the middle aged and the older ones.
TMI: So he had been neglecting those above 50?
Dr Chua: I would say he totally neglected them. I wouldn't even say 50, even those above the age of 45 also, all gone. But you need people with experience because we are a ruling party. We must have a combination of a mixture of the young, the middle aged and the veterans.
TMI: As for appointing those who supported him in the past, isn't that a common practice in political parties?
Dr Chua: Oh yes, but (you should appoint) people who have contributed to the party. People who are known in the party. So now you have people who are appointed as senator who nobody knows. A political unknown. except to a very small group of people. We have presidential council people who are just first term as a divisional leaders. The presidential council discusses government policies and Cabinet policies. We cannot have people who have no idea at all. You want to have fresh faces, there are a lot of talented people who may not be very active, I would prefer them. But at least they have ideas. We don't want yesmen. We want talented people, people who can contribute to the party and nation building and not yesmen. That's why I described some of his appointed people are mother of all yesmen.
TMI: Can you give any specific examples of how he has not been able to move the party forward and the people he appointed not been able to discuss government policies?
Dr Chua: How can you move the party forward when you only have had six presidential council meetings when it should be a weekly affair? You don't meet, how you going to move? It is just a major setback. That means you are making decisions on your own. There is no collective responsibility. There is no team spirit. There is no consensus politics. It cannot be a one-man show. It is a one-million-member party. The strength of MCA is the amount of grassroots leaders you have, at the division, state and federal level. You must know how to utilise the party resources and machinery to serve not your own self, but the rakyat.
TMI: You've come up with a manifesto for the party, but Ong has said he sees your manifesto as an attempt to remove him. Would you like to respond to that?
Dr Chua: Very simple. The vote of no confidence is a referendum on his performance. It is a most basic democratic process. We want central delegates to assess him. Nobody forced any central delegate to vote you know. So in the event that this (a motion of no confidence in Ong) is passed, we must have a plan on how to move the party. The grab for power is for those who pass (a motion of no confidence in the president) and have nothing for the party. This is not a grab for power, this is a normal democratic process, if it goes through, we must have a contingency plan on how to unite the party, how to consolidate the party and how to move forward. We cannot say, have a vote of no confidence, and he leaves and then we say “My God, we don't know what to do!” And I can tell you the response that we get from delegates who are neutral has been fantastic. Because they are sick of hearing both sides — my side and the other side — everyday condemning each other. Nobody comes up with any plan on how to move the party forward. And I say in the manifesto very clearly. If he moves off because of a vote of no confidence, then the circumstances are created such that if I am re-instated as the deputy president, then I have to assume that post. I have already said in the Chinese press very clearly that I am only an interim president. I have no intention of holding it longer than necessary. I have only 1½ to two years. And my biggest challenge is how to consolidate the party, unite the party and reduce the internal conflict we have now which is basically created by him. His appointment generated a lot of unhappiness. If you have done well as president, then you should not be worried about a vote of no confidence. You should be happy. In the last party election, he secured 60 per cent support. If he had done well, he could get 70 per cent support in this vote of no confidence. This is a most democratic process. It is not a coup d'etat by the army. It is a very democratic process that if you have done well, you submit yourself to your members’ evaluation. It is just like (Umno president) Datuk Seri Najib Razak. Umno AGM is coming soon. Najib cannot say people cannot evaluate me. In his case, I am sure he will pass with flying colours. I am not praising him, but the fact is, he has done well in his one year, nobody can deny that.
Dr Chua: Yes. I want to consolidate and unite the party. If we have no unity in the party, we can never face a general election. There will be no witch hunt. People who are elected by the central delegates should be respected. The current president's biggest problem is that he doesn't respect people who are elected by central delegates. He selectively chooses to respect some only. I will listen to the grassroots. Whatever you do must reflect the wishes of the grassroots, especially in the appointment of central committee, presidential council and state liaison committee members. There should be consensus politics and not a one-man show. There should be team spirit then only you can get your members to be committed. Then only you can lift up their morale. The morale today is very low because of the internal fighting. I have no interest in fighting. All I want is just to do my work. One week after the party election, he started the personal attacks against me in the Chinese press and that has been continuing non-stop until the call for this EGM. If Ong had done well, the way Najb had done, at least this one year since taking over, then nobody would have been able to garner or even dream of passing a vote of no confidence against him. This EGM is meaningful and significant because it sends a message to any future president that they must do well otherwise they will be subjected to an EGM and a vote of no confidence.
TMI: You've said before you are not interested in any minister position, that still stands today?
Dr Chua: I will say it again. He (Ong) says I am fighting for a minister’s post; I never ask for minister’s post. He just wants to smear my name that I am power crazy that I am crazy for a minister's post and that a tainted leader cannot assume the presidency. I am sure you're going to ask (about the sex CD). The (sex) CD is a black spot on my political career as a public figure. I have apologised, admitted my mistake and asked all the MCA members and the public to give me a second chance. And today, I must thank the prime minister for giving me a second chance. He appointed me as the BN coordinator in charge of opposition party states. And I must thank the opposition leaders, none of them have ever come and attacked me using the tape. Today, Tan Sri Mohd Isa Abdul Samad is nominated a candidate (for the Bagan Pinang by-election). Isa also has a small black spot in his career. And PM has said it very clearly, a person who has made a mistake should be given a chance. Even a convict who goes to jail. I want to emphasise I am not trying to justify my actions. I am just appealing for a second chance, that is all. Ong keeps on pinning me on this point (the sex CD). Is Ong Tee Keat a Mr Clean? That has not been proven yet. As I've said, he is the first president of MCA investigated by the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC). The truth or otherwise, we don't know.
TMI: But The Star had reported that MACC has found no evidence against Ong so far (over allegations that received an RM10 million donation from Kuala Dimensi CEO Datuk Seri Tiong King Sing).
Dr Chua: The editorial board at The Star has been politicised.
TMI: If you read comments on the Internet, there are a lot of members of the public who say you are capable but that the black mark makes any leadership position untenable for you.
Dr Chua: If you want to compare like that, then (former US President) Bill Clinton should retire. I am nobody compared to Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton lied, he was impeached. Today he follows Hillary Clinton everywhere and people still have to receive him. People evaluate you on your capabilities and leadership. I have been left without of a post for 20 months. If I don't have support, do you think I can get people to call for an EGM? No way. This shows that people accept your weaknesses and your failure. In life, everybody makes mistakes, let's be honest about it. Nobody is perfect. Are you saying that Najib is not sensitive about morality issues when he appointed me as BN coordinator? I have been asked to assist in the Bagan Pinang campaign. I have to go with Isa.
TMI: What I am saying is that there are sections of the public who see this kind of issue as something they cannot accept, even in Isa's case.
Dr Chua: Of course. On morality issues, you can never get 100 per cent. So the most democratic process is to subject yourself to voting. So Isa is also to be evaluated. And he was chosen because he is immensely popular. And people know he can deliver.
TMI: Moving on to the EGM, there are many permutations in terms of which of the five proposed resolutions will be adopted by the general assembly.
Dr Chua: Whatever permutation comes through, I will accept the decision of the central delegates. I will not challenge that and I will not even question it. If they think I am not fit to an MCA member, well I accept it. If they think I can be a member but not a deputy president, okay I accept it.
TMI: What if it turns out he remains as president and you remain as deputy president? It is back to square one?
Dr Chua: Then it is a strong signal to the president — how many per cent of the people pass the vote of no confidence. I say in a democratic country, if a majority pass a vote of no confidence against you, then you know what to do. Last time, he got about 59 per cent support. So this time, if he has 50 per cent support, what does that tell you? Despite sacking and suspending me, the members still want me back. Respect the decision of the central delegates and their choice.
TMI: Ong says he will resign even if the vote of no confidence fails but more than one-third of delegates vote for it. Do you agree with his stand?
Dr Chua: I leave it to his wisdom. The most basic principle of democracy is that the leadership must enjoy the confidence and support of the majority.
TMI: Do you agree that the presidential council should resign if the delegates overturn the decision to sack you?
Dr Chua: Elected members should not resign because they are accountable to the central delegates. They are elected for three years and they must serve their three years. You can see the mindset of a person. I am very democratic. You know that when the EGM is called, the central delegates have to make a decision by voting. Either to agree with the decision or disagree. Before the voting, you already tell them, you disagree I resign. In other words, you must agree, indirectly sending a strong message. Is that democracy? It is just like a general election, you tell voters, you don't vote us, there will be racial riots. Will it go down well or not? It may serve well 30 years ago but no more. If you say that you are finished.
TMI: Some have criticised you and your supporters saying that you should have appealed and waited for the central committee to make a decision instead of calling for an EGM so soon. Do you agree with this?
Dr Chua: I don't agree. You see, only if they can get two-thirds of the central committee can they sack me. But they already sack me and already tell the whole world. They should send me the findings of the disciplinary board before I appeared before the presidential council. I received the findings at 5.30pm on Aug 26. Then I was informed that the (presidential council) meeting will take place at 7pm. I have 1½ hours to read it including travelling time. From my house in Sierramas to MCA headquarters takes 45 minutes. During that time, I read the report. Assuming I have no driver, I have no time to read the report. What type of message does that send? I have been long in politics, I have been a central committee member for 19 years. From that type of action, you know they are out to finish you off. Why can't they send it earlier to me? I never even made an issue out of it. To sack a deputy president is a big thing. They should send the report much earlier. At least a week earlier. Let you read and prepare your grounds for appeal. My disciplinary hearing is unique — there is no complainant. You go to court, there is no complainant, the court would dismiss the case. My complainant withdrew the complaint because he says he is unhappy with the way the case is handled. He made the complaint in March last year. The hearing is August this year — 15 months later. He says I have been elected, it is not proper to have a hearing anymore. If you think the tape is a stain mark, you should have prevented me from standing for any election. There is code of ethics for candidates you know or not? If you are bankrupt, you cannot stand for election, they will stop you. If you really think morality is an issue after I am elected, sack me straight away. Why wait another year?
TMI: You said you want to unite the party but Ong obviously has his supporters. How do you plan to heal the split in the party?
Dr Chua: Elected members should be respected. Presidential council members are appointed. As long as you make appointments based on leadership ability and track record, whoever you appoint will go down well. When I was state chairman in Johor, after the Team A-Team B crisis, I made sure people from Team B who had a good image and young should be candidates. People like (deputy education minister) Wee Ka Siong. You want to consolidate and unite the party, you must be big hearted and open minded. You must practise what I always say — keep your friends close and your enemies closer. That would be my principle. I was a divisional chairman for 24 years. Nobody challenged me. Not because I am great but because I know how to accommodate everybody. When I stepped down, they left the place vacant last year. I was the longest serving divisional chairman because I can accommodate everybody. Politics is politics, there will always be people against you. But as long as the majority supports you, and as long as you think you are doing right, then you don't have to worry.
TMI: Looking ahead, if it turns out you can return to the party, what role do you see for yourself?
Dr Chua: I see myself as interim president until the next party election. If the house is not put in order, whatever plan you have will not come to fruition. Right now Ong cannot move the party as it is split all the way down. And you don't blame anybody. You blame yourself. If Najib cannot move the country forward, if Najib cannot get the support of the people, he cannot blame his deputy, his secretary-general or anybody. If there are racial riots in Malaysia, he has to blame himself. That is called leadership.
Dr Chua: That is a tough job. That will tie up with government policy and how we project ourselves. This is an EGM where MCA is not a winner. And nobody is a winner. Because the Chinese community is just fed up with us, of the internal fight. When you assume the role of a president, your first role is to ensure your party is united. Then only people have trust and hope in you and believe what you say. If you can achieve that, you achieve 30 per cent. Plus what Najib is doing. Doing the right thing, saying the right thing and getting it implemented. Policies which are fair to all races, policies which are accountable and democratic. That will help MCA as a component party. And service at the local community level. You don't serve the rakyat well, you are finished. The party resources should be channelled to empower the local leaders. Then we have to network with NGOs and component parties. We must establish a cordial working relationship with component parties. When I say cordial relationship with component parties, it does not mean we kow tow to Umno. That is wrong. But we also cannot be confrontational with Umno. Umno is not MCA's enemy. They are our partners. It is a question of how you work with this partner to strengthen yourself and benefit the community. And Umno knows that. If MCA is weak, BN will be affected, the Chinese support will be affected.
TMI: Well, in past, Chinese support for MCA was affected because it was seen to accede to Umno. Do you foresee a new type of working relationship with Umno?
Dr Chua: I have been working at the state level for years. I have to have a good working relationship with the mentri besar and government servants. When I was a minister I had a good relationship with everybody in my ministry. I have a good relationship with the deputy prime minister who is now the prime minister. Having a good relationship doesn't mean you kow tow to them. That is wrong. Relationship is important because we are all human beings. It represents the first step towards you getting them on board or on your side to agree to solving some Chinese problem. More so when you need to bring them to the Cabinet. I give an example, you want the government to give more allocations to Chinese schools in a more structured manner, rather than on an ad-hoc basis, first I have to convince the minister of education. Then I must convince the prime minister that it is good for MCA and it is good for BN. So before I can convince them, I must have good relationship. If I don't have good relationship, to get an appointment also I may not be able to get. I don't want to say who lah. Then only you can convince them to come on board what you are trying to do.
TMI: What is your message to readers of The Malaysian Insider?
Dr Chua: This fight is not about supporting Chua Soi Lek or topple Ong Tee Keat as he would like to make it out to be. I anticipate that there will be a very aggressive stance taken against me. But I leave it to the wisdom of the delegates. I already said don't be personal. If politics is based on personal attacks, it will create animosity. You should fight on your platform and policies and your plan to revive MCA. You have been given one year. I supported him and everybody supported him. And you have failed us. You not only failed us, you caused disunity within the party. You have caused a crisis that needs an EGM to resolve. In the history of MCA, this is the second leadership crisis that needs an EGM to resolve. So it tells a lot. It sends a strong message that MCA is still a very democratic party. We hope that the delegates will vote wisely. That the vote of no confidence against Ong Tee Keat is to ensure that the party regains its influence and its role. And this is important to make MCA relevant. Otherwise, we will be doomed.
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